LOGO-L> Re: LOGO-L> Logo/ToonTalk Textual/Visual

["Ken Kahn" <KenKahn@ToonTalk.com>]

Brian Harvey wrote
>IMHO the best solution to this problem is a hybrid system, in which
>things that are easily expressed graphically can be, but also, anything
>can be expressed textually.

I think this is a great research topic. But I worry about the compromises
that would be needed to make this work well for a general-purpose
programming language. And I also am uncertain about whether hybrids adds
some kind of cognitive complexity. On the other hand, it is always a good
thing to be able to see or understand the same thing in multiple ways.

>
>Maybe ToonTalk is, too, since you say that it produces Java code.  If
>the Java code isn't too convoluted (I haven't yet had a chance to play
>with it -- I'll try to do that soon!) and if you can use Java code to
>create new capabilities in the GUI, then I'll be pleased.
>

The Java code is readable but not the kind of code one would write from
scratch. Making it possible to change the Java code and have that reflected
back into ToonTalk is a very difficult problem.

>Btw, to say that concurrency is "natural" for people raises a lot of
>questions for me.  Indeed, I believe that if you're simulating a world
>of independent actors, it feels natural to program them separately.
>But my CS students certainly don't find natural the synchronization
>problems that arise if those actors want to share state!
>

I agree if the sharing of state is "direct" rather than via message passing.
That's why I keep complaining about global variables as the only means of
communication in MicroWorlds. I'll write a longer essay on this issue soon
and post it here.

Best,

-ken kahn





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