LOGO-L> Re: teaching computer programming to kids

[Frank Caggiano <caggiano@atlantic.net>]

Claus Witfelt wrote:
> 
> Where can you get this Logo? Who distributes it?
> 
> Yours
> 
> Claus Witfelt
> 
> Richard D. Swift wrote:
> >
> > I teach students in the middle school basic programing skills
> > using Logo; specifically Microworlds Project builder
> > 1-800-321-5646. The documentation is very good and it provides
> > more visually stimulating and immediate results than a higher
> > level language. This is in my mind a training language not a
> > prototype for real computer languages like C++. But the kids
> > love it and it offers room to grow.
> >
> > This program or similiar works on both Mac and PC platforms.
> >
> > ---

First for Mr. Swift.
Lets start off by clearing up one very important point. Logo is as real
a computer language as you'll find. To say that c++ is a 'higher' level
language indicates either one, your being very loose with your terms or
two, your not sure what your talking about.  That you teach kids
computers in school is a scary thought.  I don't mean to flame here but
there is so much bad, misinformation especially concerning computer use
by kids and in schools that it is very frustrating to see a computer
teacher say these things.

Whats a 'real' language?  You want to simulate the effects of gravity on
falling bodies? On the earth, the moon, on a planet your kids invent?
You want to explore the gramatical makeup of english? My point is that
all thse things and more are easily done in logo.  Now if by real you
mean 'commercially' used than yes c++ is 'realer' (more's the pity). But
by the time these kids are out of school and looking for work who knows
what language, or paradigm, will be in use.  The best we can do is to
teach the kids how to learn and logo wins bigtime here.

Logo was developed at MIT by among others Seymour Papert.  If your
reading this group (misc.kids.computer) and not familiar with Papert's
ideas (you don't need to agree with everything he says but you do need
to know what he has said) than you haven't done your homework. Logo is a
dialect of lisp, and your not going to get much higher level than lisp.
It has never attained much commercial use true, but that in no way says
anything about the languages strengths. While graphics (turtles) is what
most people think of when they hear 'logo' that is only one small part
of the language as I have tried to show above. Like lisp it strengths
are it's ability to handle lists, lists of anything and it's lack of
distinction between data and instructions. 

That said lets answer the original posters question, where can you get
it.

You didn't say if you have a Mac or Win95 PC or whatever. I'm not a Mac
user so I can't help you to much there. Logo Computer Systems
http://www.lcsi.ca has a Mac version and a Win95 PC version.  They have
demos you can download over the net or you can get a free cd with the
demo's on it.  If you have a Win95 PC they also have a plugin for your
browser which enables you to run MW Logo projects over the net.  There
are a bunch of people putting up MW projects on the web (me included)
that you can check out.

If you have WIN95 there us an excellent window based FREE version
available from George Mills at http://www.softronix.com/.

If these don't help check out my page I have some other links or else
check out the Logo Foundation at
http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/logo-foundation/.

There is also a newsgroup (comp.lang.logo) and a discussion list.

Hope this all helps, regards.

-- 
Frank Caggiano
caggiano@atlantic.net
http://www.atlantic.net/~caggiano
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