Re: LOGO-L> real life learning?

["Dale R. Reed" <dale-reed@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>]

mmaveal@foxberry.net wrote:
<snip> 
> If the above statement is true why are the sixteen year old dropouts in this
> country so successful? 

I assume your meant to say unsuccessful or were being ironical.

Read Grace Llewellyn's "Real Lives, eleven teenagers who don't go to
school" and "Freedom Challenge, African American homeschoolers" and this
morning's Parade insert on Martina Hingis(born in Czechoslovakia and
presently lives in Switzerland) the Wimbledon tennis champion that does
not go to school or the "Growing Without Schooling" magazine that for 20
years have been documenting the successes of "dropouts" or visit the
hundreds of homeschooling web pages.

> And don't give me the excuse that they were ruined by
> teachers. If they are so self motivated why do so many end up in jail? 

Well at least we agree that there is a problem.  And maybe we should be
trying to think of a better way.

>Why aren't they being sought out by colleges to teach? Why aren't companies 
> looking for these individuals to hire? 

I don't know if its important but I understand that 40% of the present
College graduates are unemployed or underemployed.  So staying in school
is no assurance of "success."  

> They key ingredient these individuals lack is
> discipline. A self motivated person has self discipline. 

Right!  But John Holt said that external discipline never results in
internal discipline.

> Home schooling
> requires a parent/parents with self discipline and motivation, hence
> his/her/their children will learn those attributes and become successful.

And society, including the parents, must send a very strong message to
the young adults they are responsible for their own educations and
lives.  The present system does not do this.

> My school runs a 30%-40% daily absentee rate.  These are kids who are basically
> raising themselves. If left alone they  run and ruin the streets. Kids join
> street gangs and place themselves under the leaders authority.

There is no doubt that we have a Systems problem and that just changing
the school subsystem is not enough.  That is why I alluded to my
libertarian priority list.  It includes eliminating laws against
youngsters working, certification and registration and licensing of
professions, zoning laws, etc. etc. 

> They want discipline and structure. 

Why?  I think is because we handicapped them in kindergarten. 
Intentionally handicapped them.  Read Ayn Rand's chapter  "The
Comprachicos" in her book called "The New Left: The Anti-Industrial
Revolution."

> I use logo in my classroom as a motivator. When the
> assigned work is completed the student is allowed to "play" on the computer. Logo
> projects are used as extra credit. My absentee rate is very low. I have very
> few tardy or disruptive students because those behaviors result in a loss of
> computer time. They have the choice of complying with the rules or doing their
> own thing and accepting the results. (real life learning?)

Mike, I only wish my boys could of spent some(not too much but some)
time in your logo classroom when they were in school.  But I am afraid
people like you do not stay in the system very long or if they do they
lose their enthusiasm pretty fast.  Also I copied an article below from
last week's newspaper for your consideration.      Dale

Dropout aces GED test, now dreams of college    A1 

Seattle Times  8/13/97            by Marsha King   Seattle Times staff
reporter

Score one for street smarts: She had 9th highest mark out of 700,000 on
graduate equivalency test 

Five years ago, Jessica Long was a homeless 15-year-old, a high-school
dropout who slept in abandoned buildings and panhandled in the
University District. 
Today, she’s working two jobs, and hunting for a good college, after
getting the ninth-highest score out of nearly 700,000 people who
completed a high-school-equivalency exam in the United States and its
territories. 
At a ceremony this month, Long received a national award from the
American Council on Education as one of the top scorers on the General
Education Development (GED) test. 
Her next goal is to earn at least a master’s degree in physical
anthropology - if she’s accepted to college and wins scholarship money. 
The GED test lasts 7 ½ hours and covers what graduating high-school
seniors are supposed to know in English, science, math, social studies,
literature and the arts. Long did not study for the test. 
Her achievement is all the more unusual, because "the awards often go to
students who’ve had every economic advantage," says Janet Anderson, with
the Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges. 
When Long dropped out of 10th grade in California, she was failing every
class, though she’d been in programs for the intellectually gifted and
played classical clarinet throughout elementary school.
Things started to unravel when her mother, a single parent, was
diagnosed with breast cancer - twice - and was forced to quit a good
job. Without another source of income, Long and her mother faced
poverty. 
"I was really having a lot of emotional problems at the time," Long
recalled. "I was having family problems, and I was really bored in
school. I’d been bored for a long time.". 
Soon after, she and her mother moved to the Seattle area. Long applied
to a public high school but didn’t enroll. 
Then, at age 15, she left her mom and moved to the streets. 
"I was really depressed for a long time," she says. "It was a mutual
decision. She didn’t throw me out. It was just like we couldn’t live
together at that point in time." 
In retrospect, "it was a good decision," says Long. The experience
helped her discover herself, what she wanted out of life and that "I
could do whatever I wanted to do and that I didn’t need to be walked
through it." 
She survived on "whatever" - free food programs, friends’ help,
panhandling, finding things and selling them. 
Meanwhile, her mother "was doing her own soul searching" and also became
homeless. When the two reunited, the YWCA found them a place to live,
through its Homeless Intervention Program. 
That was when Long enrolled in NOVA, an alternative public high school
in Seattle. The opportunity for intellectual freedom and creativity was
overwhelming. She wrote plays, painted and sculpted but totally
neglected academics. 
After a year, she dropped out again and went to work. 
For the past three years, Long has been an outreach worker for the 45th
Street Clinic several nights a week. She finds homeless youth, wins
their trust and steers them to medical help at the clinic when
appropriate. 
"She’s a very unique individual," says Paul Barry, her supervisor at the
clinic. "She really has a mature understanding of how society is made up
and how it results that some people are homeless."
And, he adds, "She’s entertaining and vivacious. She’s a scream." 
Long also has been employed at the Seattle Infant Development Center and
Preschool the past 15 months. 
"The kids just love her. The parents love her," said Executive Director
Marna Towle. 
Ever since that year on the streets, the young woman has hung out off
and on at the Orion Center for homeless youth. One of the components of
Orion’s program is a classroom that’s part of Interagency School, a
Seattle public school. 
Staffers there counseled her about everything from self-esteem to study
skills and paid her $25 fee to take the GED test. 
"It felt like God just put her in here and we were supposed to say
something to her and she just spread her wings and, bam!," recalls
teacher Lynn Bier. 
"We just sat back with our mouths open and said `Gee.’ " 
Long and her mother are close again. Her mom encouraged her to take the
GED test and now hopes her daughter might attend prestigious Smith
College in Northampton, Mass. 
The two also plan to attend the National College Fair, Nov. 8-9, at the
Washington State Convention and Trade Center, to find out about
different schools and financial aid. 
Long settled on anthropology as a major because ever since she was a
little kid she has been trying to figure out why people act the way they
do. 
And why do kids drop out of high school and end up on the street? 
For a million different reasons, she says. One of the biggest: "Life
around you gets way too crazy to be able to be just a teenager." 
Anything can throw it off - death, drugs, alcohol, abuse or emotional
problems just a little bit heavier than other people’s adolescent stuff. 
What’s her advice for parents? Encourage teens to think about themselves
and what they want to do. With a belief in themselves, they’ll have no
problem succeeding, she says. 
And, maybe, people also need to change their idea of success. 
"I consider myself a success," says Long, who still looks the part of a
punk rocker with a ring in her nostril, a piece of jewelry that looks
like a tiny barbell piercing her tongue, and a shaved head except for
bangs and springy little pigtails dyed to match in yellow, blue, purple
and green. 
"I make $6.50 an hour as a day-care-center teacher," she says. "I enjoy
what I do every day, and I go home feeling good about myself. I’m
teaching 3-year-olds to be nice to each other and to love themselves. 
"I’m a success right now even if I never get a Ph.D." 
-- 
$  dale-reed@worldnet.att.net   Seattle, Washington U.S.A.  $

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