Re: LOGO-L> Numbers or Words?

[George Mills <mills@softronix.com>]

Tony Belding wrote:
> 
> On 27-Jun-97, George Mills wrote:
> 
> > I worked in Pascal for about 6 years and loved it.
> 
> Egad!  I took a course in Pascal in college, and I loathed it.  Pascal is a

Guess you never really learned Pascal then, too bad, it's a cool
language.

> fascist language.  During the same time period I taught myself C, and have
> been using it ever since.
> 
> Of course, C has become a fascist language too, ever since the ANSI
> committee mucked it all up.  They added nonsense like stronger type
> checking and prototypes.  Given a choice, I would code in Amiga E, which is

Your statement here prooves to me that I'm wasting my time.

Working in C without prototypes is a disaster.
And if you don't realize that then your not qualified to make such
silly statements.

I just spent 50 hours finding one bug. Because it was in an embedded
system using
an old C compiler that did not require prototypes. The function expected
a "long" but was passed an constant (int) due to it lacking a prototype.

Working in a 1000 line program it can appear as just hassle.
But when you start working in the 10,000 to 1,000,000 lines of
code with 10-100 modules it becomes a blessing. I suspect your in the
1 module 1000 line program range.

> far more readable than C and enjoys polymorphic datatypes.  Not to mention
> OOP, LISP cells, a blazing fast compile-and-link cycle, and other advances.
> Unfortunately, I keep getting trapped into projects that require C.

Egad! You code for living and don't understand the benifits of strict
type
checking and prototypes. Although your not the first C programmer I meet
that doesn't understand either.

> 
> > Switching from
> > any language your used to can be painful. But after learning several
> > you will begin to see each languages strength and weakness.
> 
> After learning a second programming language, it gets easier to pick up new
> ones.

Once you FULLY understand the first and the second one.

> 
> > Both Logo and Pascal have many Strengths and Weaknesses.
> 
> I am not aware of any strengths of Pascal.
> 

Your statement here prooves again to me that I'm wasting my time.
And I should hope most readers should realize that as well even
if they prefer Logo to Pascal should realize that there must
be some reason why it exists and for its popularity.

One neat feature I recall in Pascal was the "with" statement.
Which I wish C had. One day I hope to write a preproccessor for
C that will expand out a "with" statement.

Another very powerfully feature is string handling in Pascal
is very nice. In my opinion String handling in Logo is Clumsy.

Have you tried reading and writing Binary files in Logo lately?

If you just "play" with the language and not solve real problems,
problems that take years to solve you'll never really understand
any language.

And I still learned cool tricks right up to that last day I
wrote a line of code in that language. It takes several YEARS to
learn any language because you need to solve several LARGE problems
with it before you realize its strength and weakness.

I refuse to standby and see anyone bash Pascal when they
don't really understand why it's different. Nor would I let
anyone bash Logo.

> > All I'm saying is to keep an open mind and don't look at strict
> > type checking as problem but as a benefit.
> 
> How could it possibly be a benefit?
>

And a 3rd time you proove it again.

> 
> >Modula-2 is a follow on to Pascal.
> 

Actually Modula-3 follows Modula-2 but I don't pretend know much
about Oberon or Modula-3.

> And Oberon is a follow-on to Modula-2.
> 
> >Borlands Delphi is an Object Oriented Pascal which does incremental
> >compiles on the fly.
> 
> Object-oriented Pascal is a strange idea.  If you're going to add OOP,
> surely it should be added to Modula-2 or Oberon.  (Or does Oberon already
> include OOP?)
> 

It doesn't seem strange to the folks that posted approx 3000 messages
to the Dephi related news groups.

Why don't you post to the Pascal related groups and let them
know how little benifits there are to using Pascal over Logo.
Be prepared to change your email address if you do.

This is the number of postings to each news group over an equal period
of time (2 weeks I think).

If you want to learn more about these different languages then
join the news group and ask some questions as to why strict type
checking
and prototypes can be a good thing.

630  comp.lang.ada
114  comp.lang.apl
1191 comp.lang.asm.x86
86   comp.lang.asm370
69   comp.lang.awk
486  comp.lang.basic.misc
304  comp.lang.basic.visual.3rdparty
0    comp.lang.basic.visual.announce
679  comp.lang.basic.visual.database
3162 comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
9    comp.lang.beta
2180 comp.lang.c
48   comp.lang.c.moderated
2884 comp.lang.c++
24   comp.lang.c++.leda
327  comp.lang.c++.moderated
1147 comp.lang.clarion
827  comp.lang.clipper
157  comp.lang.clipper.visual-objects
11   comp.lang.clos
6    comp.lang.clu
641  comp.lang.cobol
15   comp.lang.dylan
652  comp.lang.eiffel
132  comp.lang.forth
11   comp.lang.forth.mac
501  comp.lang.fortran
59   comp.lang.functional
3    comp.lang.hermes
6    comp.lang.icon
11   comp.lang.idl
132  comp.lang.idl-pvwave
553  comp.lang.java.advocacy
14   comp.lang.java.announce
129  comp.lang.java.beans
256  comp.lang.java.databases
332  comp.lang.java.gui
596  comp.lang.java.help
88   comp.lang.java.machine
3788 comp.lang.java.programmer
136  comp.lang.java.security
216  comp.lang.java.softwaretools
1704 comp.lang.javascript
16   comp.lang.limbo
106  comp.lang.lisp
3    comp.lang.lisp.franz
17   comp.lang.lisp.mcl
5    comp.lang.lisp.x
103  comp.lang.logo
77   comp.lang.misc
17   comp.lang.ml
59   comp.lang.modula2
58   comp.lang.modula3
116  comp.lang.mumps
46   comp.lang.oberon
55   comp.lang.objective-c
29   comp.lang.pascal.ansi-iso
881  comp.lang.pascal.borland
197  comp.lang.pascal.delphi.advocacy
21   comp.lang.pascal.delphi.announce
282  comp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misc
197  comp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usage
     comp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writing
794  comp.lang.pascal.delphi.databases
2189 comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc
33   comp.lang.pascal.mac
260  comp.lang.pascal.misc
4    comp.lang.perl.announce
1746 comp.lang.perl.misc
234  comp.lang.perl.modules
67   comp.lang.perl.tk
48   comp.lang.pl1
7    comp.lang.pop
281  comp.lang.postscript
69   comp.lang.prograph
61   comp.lang.prolog
614  comp.lang.python
102  comp.lang.rexx
28   comp.lang.sather
180  comp.lang.scheme
11   comp.lang.scheme.c
5    comp.lang.scheme.scsh
1    comp.lang.sigplan
524  comp.lang.smalltalk
719  comp.lang.tcl
15   comp.lang.tcl.announce
91   comp.lang.verilog
123  comp.lang.vhdl
5    comp.lang.visual
230  comp.lang.vrml

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-- 
===============================================================
George Mills (mills@softronix.com)
http://www.softronix.com/
The www page contains some very powerful educational software.
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