Re: LOGO-L> Papert at the 92nd St. Y

[Ihor Charischak <icharisc@stevens-tech.edu>]

Boy is this making a mountain out of a molehill. Who doesnt enjoy a good 
lecture? Many of my most interesting adventures were inspired by a 
"lecture". One of those was by Seymour Papert back in 1980 at Teachers 
College. That talk changed my life. (I stopped arguing for BASIC.) Though 
I don't do much with Logo these days, Papert's vision of making 
mathematics come alive for children continues to inspire me.

It also might help to remember that he is almost 70 years old.

Regards - Ihor

Stevens Institute of Technology
Hoboken, NJ


>Barry Brucklacher wrote:
>
>>1. Papert's first comments were something like these: "What I'd like to talk
>>to you about gives me certain problems. One is that I want to say that it's
>>an absurd way to disseminate knowledge, to have a person like a teacher
>>stand up in front of a bunch of people, who sit there and listen. what I'd
>>much rather be doing is creating a learning experience for all of you that
>>would let you experience a different kind of learning--a different feel for
>>a learning experience. Can't do it, so I have to stand up here and talk."
>
>>Most of the K-12 teachers in our class snorted at this. Despite Papert's
>>protestations, and with concern about overuse of any single method of
>>teaching and learning, most of us thought that his lecture was a fine and
>>appropriate way for Papert to help the people in this group to learn about
>>children and computers. 
>
>I haven't seen the tape but have read Paperts books.
>
>The point he is making here (as distinct from the action he is doing, 
>giving a 
>lecture) is consistent with his writings, which say, we learn better by 
>constructing things ourselves. I'd see a lecture as OK for an introduction 
>to 
>Papert's ideas but to actually grasp them deeply you would have to try to 
>put 
>them into practice yourself. Given that the lecture is still the dominant 
>mode 
>of most teachers it seems to me appropriate that Papert at least draw 
>attention 
>to the fact that he, too,  is giving a lecture and that there are other ways 
>that might result in better learning. Constructionism (we rearrange our 
>ideas 
>internally by actively doing externally) is a central point of his writings.
>
>
>>2. The presider introduced Papert this way: "There are few people like Dr.
>>Papert, knowledgeable about computer technology, how people learn, how
>>children grow, and family life. He has also retained his capacity to play,
>>to explore, to discover, and to enjoy."
>
>>A few minutes later, when Papert is unable to operate the computer, I was
>>startled by how quickly he gave up when he had a minor problem with the
>>computer that had with his Connected Family Web page. Almost immediately he
>>said, "Well, typical . . . let's turn it off again." After a woman came out
>>and fixed the problem, Papert again had trouble (he didn't seem to
>>understand how to scroll in one of the page's frames). Like before, he gave
>>up immediately: "I'm sorry . . . can I get it? . . . I think we'll have to
>>abandon these live demonstrations." The woman comes back, but Papert won't
>>use the machine: "Ha . . . let's turn this off . . . let's turn this off,
>>and pretend. I think we can imagine what . . . what . . . what we would see."
>
>>Is this someone with the capacity to play and to explore, someone fluent
>>with technology (he also got wrapped up in his microphone cord, and a few
>>minutes later knocked it off and spoke for a while without
>>amplification)--instead he seemed to be quite intimidated by all the
>>technology around him.
>
>Perhaps the giving up too easily is more a product of being in "lecture 
>mode" 
>than Papert's natural self. Being in lecture mode creates these sorts of 
>pressures. It also might depend on the sort of vibes being picked up from 
>the 
>(live) audience.
>
>The point about the microphone is a bit of a cheap shot I feel. That's a 
>different sort of criticism from the point about giving up too easily when 
>the 
>technology goes wrong. It wouldn't worry me that Papert's presentation 
>wasn't 
>as "smooth" and "slick" as a used car salesman.
>
>-- Bill Kerr
>
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