Re: LOGO-L> Re: Punctuation

[AnyoneIs <AnyoneIs@aol.com>]

>  From: "Dreyfuss Pierre-Andre" <p.a.dreyfuss@mailexcite.com>
>  Subject: Re: LOGO-L>  Re: Punctuation

>  The first x is used as a name  the second means the value of the name. The 
> same writing for different things is more a source of confusion.

Almost as bad as different writing for the same things. Why isn't it:

    To "main
    print "|Hello World!|     ; or print "'Hello World!  ; depending on your
logo?
    end

Obviously, we are using the symbol main as a name, and yet we don't quote it.
And yet it is quoted for any other operation. THIS type of thing gives first
graders fits, in my experience (actually, it "bugs" me too!)

>  The kids have to learn that a word is used in three different situations:
>  As a verb , that is to express doing something.
>      with neither quote or  :
>  As a word, made of a row of characters.
>       with quote
>  As the name of something it is representing.
>       with   :

It would be OK if this was true. But it is not.

>  The difficulty  is not in the symbols or the way to represent those ideas 
> but the ideas themselves.

Actually, it is the inconcistency that is the problem.

>  So when a kid uses the symbols correctly that means 
>  he has understood the semantic of the things.

...and memorized some special cases...

>  If you want to do some change to logo, that is to accept the correct
writing:
>  to "foo  but keeping the usual one to foo.

hear! hear!

>  But the meaning that :x is a variable is so strong that 
>  we have a symbolic representation of a variable in the title line with :x
>  
>  Which does'nt mean the value of x but represent the
>  idea that  we have a variable here.

Ah, so the problem is with "to?" Why has no one come up with an alternate?

>  For the teachers, with young children, we don't speak of variable so to foo
>  allow to build procedures without bothering with quote.

so when can I teach these kids:
    to poly :sides :size
     repeat :sides [fd :size rt 360/:sides]
    end

I have been teaching it to third graders, calling them "inputs." Some second
graders are comfortable with it, and even the rare first grader. But I don't
claim to know which parts of logo are age appropriate. 

Is there a book or paer out there that addresses this latter question?

David Rogers

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